During this chat, Dafne from Spain/Venezuela, Buthaina from Kuwait and Susanne in Denmark discuss the announced topic: "Quality in e-learning" and related matters, as they come up in our minds. We agree that some of hte most important qualities relate to design, methodology and tasks, and that we need to focus on Experience motivation interaction collaboration - negotiation of meaning scaffolding - appropiate moderation and flexibility.
Buth ask for our opinion on cooperative learning versus expectations for preparing students for the test, as she experiences it in her own situation,: Dafne refers to a book by Stephen Kagan with lots of exemplary material.
8Kagan, S. (1994). Cooperative Learning.San Juan Capistrano,CA: Kagan Cooperative Learning.)
During the session, we have a break where we play a little with MOO commands, allowing for reflections on pedagogical aspects of using small surprising and fun features in an online learning environment for helping the technofobia among certain students. Let us open the session where Buth comes back after she lost her connection because this little incident contains a learning moment for herself.
SusanneN says, "Buth is back"
DafneG exclaims, "welcome back, Buth!!!!!"
ButhainaA asks, "hi, I don't know what happened?"
SusanneN says, "You seem to have lost your connection, dear"
DafneG says, "you lost your link, and went out to look for it, Buth :-)"
ButhainaA asks, "are you at Daf's or the reception?"
ButhainaA says, "heheheh"
DafneG says, "at my office, buth"
ButhainaA says, "yes, Daf"
SusanneN says, "when you login again soon after, you will get to where you left"
SusanneN says, "that is a default"
SusanneN asks, "you see?"
ButhainaA asks, "oh, so it got me stright to your office this time?"
DafneG says, "yeap"
SusanneN says, "yes, that is a kind of instant teleportation"
DafneG holds up a BIG sign:| Quality in E-learning! |
SusanneN says, "I still find it so amazing that we can travel this way so fast"
ButhainaA says, "wow, sus, you know a lot about tapped.in , an Expert indeed."
SusanneN says, "Thank you, Daf. let us begin"
DafneG asks, "isn't it quality, Sus?"
ButhainaA says, "LOL"
DafneG asks, "What do you think gives quality to e-learning?"
ButhainaA says, "Experience"
SusanneN says, "well, you told us that quality is a controversial word in Spanish education thinking"
DafneG says, "can you expand, Buth"
DafneG says, "that is right, Sus"
ButhainaA says, "I meant, first motivation, a person should have a self motivitation."
ButhainaA says, "Interest, and Love to discover new information."
SusanneN says, "yes, I believe that personal experience as a participant in some kind of online (or computer supported) learning is needed from the teacher"
DafneG says, "I agree, Sus"
ButhainaA says, "Yes, sus"
DafneG says, "that is what I thought when I decided to learn about e-learning"
DafneG says, "that I had to experience it from a learner's point of view"
SusanneN says, "quality in E-learning" is s fine headline, but digging a little deeper in the layers, it awakes a lot of questions."
DafneG says, "and see what I liked or not from the point of view of a student"
DafneG says, "sure, Sus"
DafneG says, "it relates, to design, to methodology and to tasks"
MariaJo exclaims, "Hi!"
DafneG says, "hi Maria"
ButhainaA asks, "And, Goals, and objections are to be clear, right ?"
SusanneN asks, "yes - and even if you did not agree totally with the way your first online course was planned and executed, you decided that this was a viable method for you to explore, right, Daf?"
DafneG says, "sure, Buth"
SusanneN says, "Hi Maria, we just started on our topic"
DafneG says, "I learned what I did not want in my course, Sus"
ButhainaA says, "Yes, Sus, I agree 100% with you."
DafneG says, "and then when I found WIA, I realized I was right"
MariaJo has lost her link.
DafneG says, "that there was another way"
ButhainaA says, "interesting point Daf."
SusanneN says, "Buth, in a way I feel less certain about goals and objections to be fixed. each learner is an individual and carries her own experiences and involvement along"
DafneG says, "yes, you have to take into consideration students interests and previous knowledge"
SusanneN says, "so, even if you mmet your students with a clear goal and expectations, you might get some surprises that challenge you to think a little different"
DafneG says, "you need to be flexible - that is very important"
SusanneN says, "to meet their needs and to find their strenghts"
DafneG says, "yes and weaknesses"
DafneG says, "and the evaluation is also very important"
ButhainaA asks, "Yes, Sus, but I meant when a learning or teaching target is set makes it easier to to experiment with methods and approaches, what do you think?"
SusanneN says, "and their Proximal Zone of Development"
DafneG says, "right Sus"
SusanneN says, "Now, Buth, I understand better what you mean"
ButhainaA says, "thanks."
DafneG says, "any way, sometimes you need to have objectives pre-established in an academic course"
DafneG says, "but you need to know your students to make the tasks suitable for those learners"
ButhainaA asks, "yes, Daf, I thought we are talking in that context..or am I wrong?"
DafneG says, "in any context, Buth"
ButhainaA says, "Academic."
DafneG says, "there are some things that are fundamental, being an academic environment, or just for life-long learning:
o interaction
o collaboration
o negotiation of meaning
o scaffolding
o appropiate moderation
o flexibility"
ButhainaA says, "I see, so do you mean we have to look at the acdemic environment in the same perspective of the concept of long-term-learning"
DafneG says, "not exactly, buth"
SusanneN says, "I suppose that this is important, even in early childhood matters. And I'm not joking this time."
DafneG says, "Buth - the ingredients I mentioned are important for learning - at any level or context"
ButhainaA says, "Yes, Sus, And I always tell my students, that is, I always integrate the two concepts in my classes"
DafneG says, "f2f or online"
ButhainaA says, "both, Daf, but more in the f2f"
SusanneN says, "The fundamentals you just mentioned, Daf, make part of that paradigm shift in education and in our community lives"
DafneG says, "yes, Sus"
ButhainaA says, "however, having more awareness on the whole process of the online learning - this is what I will try to emphasize nmore this time."
DafneG says, "they are not new or exclusive to online education - they are important for learning in general"
ButhainaA asks, "Yes, Learning is Learning, right? the issue is about how do the learning take place?"
DafneG says, "and they should be present in teacher-education too"
SusanneN says, "Buth, I agree. the fact that we can now scaffold and share our learning activities online, puts a new demand on our clarity and awareness"
DafneG says, "to be able to have teachers change their paradigms"
ButhainaA says, "Yes,I strongly agree with you Sus."
DafneG says, "I see your point, Buth, you are learning online what you should do f2f"
ButhainaA says, "Daf, I think has to do with systems, cultures, and many other involved issues."
SusanneN says, "As in our own case, we are constantly negociating some kind of social room. This mental "room" is supported by SOME kinds of learning technologies, but not all of them are community building, far from all."
DafneG says, "for me, I am doing online what I learned to do f2f many years ago"
SusanneN says, "With learning technologies, I mean didactics, not necessarily Computer supported or even implementing technologies as such. More like "methodologies""
SusanneN says, "I wonder if I make myself clear?"
ButhainaA says, "Yes, Daf, because 20 years ago, there was no e-learning, and I think you are lucky..to be a teacher"
DafneG says, "so, we could say that quality in education is providing a kind of education that promotes learning"
SusanneN exclaims, "Yes!!!"
ButhainaA says, "who follows a student-centerd approach, and then brought it to your e-teaching, this is great."
SusanneN asks, "and, when is learning taking place?"
DafneG says, "that has to be said by the learner"
SusanneN says, "Do you know a word saying: All learning is un-learning?
SusanneN says, "to learn something new, especially in adult learning, you often need to give up earlier (mis)understandings""
DafneG says, "the learner needs to be involved in his learning process"
DafneG says, "and reflect on what he is learning and how he is learning it"
ButhainaA asks, "Daf, what if you have an old fashion educational system?"
DafneG says, "Buth,in my country many teachers are old-fashioned"
ButhainaA says, "Yes, I agree, on that the learner must be aware of how much he/she have learned."
SusanneN [to Buth,]: "the old systems are our constant challenges as we're breaking new ground"
DafneG says, "but I have always carried out my lessons my own way"
DafneG says, "I used to teach my teachers to work with the book without the book"
ButhainaA says, "yes, Sus and Daf, I agree with you, but it is a long procees.."
SusanneN says, "Daf, you must have met resistance from the system now and then with your independant and consequent thinking"
DafneG says, "sure, I have sus"
ButhainaA says, "and needs teachers' or educators in general to collaborate."
DafneG says, "but finally, people have seen how successful my methods have been"
SusanneN says, "oh yes, Buth. My own university is a great axample on how hard it is to change a stiff system and to get heard as a student with new thinking."
ButhainaA asks, "Really, Daf? and what about you Sus? Tell me please your stories in this area?"
ButhainaA says, "Yes, I'm listening sus."
DafneG listening to Sus
SusanneN says, "My background - well it is a long story and I'm not sure I can lead it into todays' topic"
SusanneN says, "but let me try, give me some patience as I think while I type,OK"
ButhainaA says, "Yes,and I would like to hear your story too Daf. As I thought your countries wwere like mine now but in your case 40 years ago, this is what I heard."
DafneG says, "what was great for me..."
SusanneN says, "at our university, me and a friend wanted to experiment with some online two way systems for communication, this was three years ago..."
SusanneN says, "But we met a lot of resistance from all sides."
SusanneN says, "We did, however, manage fo find a handful of professors who were also missing this kind of access to servers without restrictions from our technical staff, and managed to set up a meeting with our head staff, the technical staff leaders and those teschers involved"
ButhainaA says, "I think we have a kind of misuderstanding Sus, what I meant is the modern school teaching in general that started in the states for example and Europe 40 years ago. Not the Online and technology"
SusanneN says, "in the end, we decided that this had been so timetaking that we ran out of energy and moved onwards."
SusanneN says, "Buth, this was a break with old ideas in our university about how to use computers in education, going back to the seventies :-)"
ButhainaA says, "Yes, I see, got your point now.."
SusanneN says, "and, absolutely representing a paradigm shift in the understanding of learning as collaboration in action"
ButhainaA says, "See, here, we have double rejection if i may call it.."
SusanneN says, "not as readymade preprogrammed "learning content" to be put into the empty heads of silly kids (or students)"
SusanneN says, "that was the old paradigm we were trying to break, and this example showed how stiff our system was as an organization"
SusanneN says, "I just wanted to relate my story to our interest in e-learning :-)"
DafneG holds up a BIG sign: a student of mine is coming
ButhainaA says, "okay"
SusanneN holds up a BIG sign: | great |
ButhainaA says, "Sus, and this was 3 years ago."
SusanneN says, "yes"
DafneG says, "you can ask her about her experience in the online unit"
SusanneN asks, "who is your student, Daf?"
DafneG says, "her name is Adriana"
DafneG says, "Adri"
SusanneN asks, "I think I remember her name, she is from Caracas?"
DafneG says, "she is an architecture student"
SusanneN says, "yes"
ButhainaA says, "Sus, could you tell me how can I do the signs"
DafneG says, "she took my online course"
SusanneN exclaims, "easy!"
DafneG says, "type /sign message"
SusanneN says, "type /sign whatever"
ButhainaA asks, "wow, great, Daf, thanks for inviting her, so can we ask her some questions?"
SusanneN holds up a BIG sign: | like this? |
DafneG says, "sure"
DafneG says, "she is on her way here"
ButhainaA says, "I did Sus, it's not showing"
DafneG says, "don't forget the slash /"
ButhainaA <- Thanks>
SusanneN says, "hm, it is a bit tricky - for some reason, my own tapestry do not show these signs at all - but I know how to make them"
ß (__)
ß (oo)
ß /|---------\/
DafneG holds up a BIG cow: * | MOOO!! ||
||--------||
~~ ~~
ß (__)
ß (oo)
/|-------\/
SusanneN holds up a BIG cow: * | MOO! ||
||------||
~~ ~~
SusanneN says, "daf; we did this per intuition, both of us"
ButhainaA says, "yes, BJ showed me once how to do it.."
SusanneN says, "BJ is our best specialist in the field of MOO commands"
DafneG says, "Adri is having problems signing in"
SusanneN says, "Oh, and we're enjoying our little informal break"
ß (__)
ß (oo)
/|------\/
ButhainaA holds up a BIG cow: * | Moo ||
||-----||
~~ ~~
ß \^|^/ /""""""\
ß \ / / (@) (@)
ß / \ (' (::o|o:)
ß / `----\ "--^-'
ß \ ____/ \____
ß `-(,,,__/\______/\__,,)
_______
| |
SusanneN holds up a BIG sepup: | BRAVO |
SusanneN holds up a BIG sign: | this was a /sepup thing |
ButhainaA asks, "why doesn't it work with the other signs?"
ß \^|^/ /""""""\
ß \ / / (@) (@)
ß / \ (' (::o|o:)
ß / `----\ "--^-'
ß \ ____/ \____
ß `-(,,,__/\______/\__,,)
______
DafneG holds up a BIG sepup: | boo! |
SusanneN says, "sign another unforeseen learning moment"
DafneG says, "Adri had to reboot"
SusanneN asks, "Buth do you not see such drawings made of dots and lines, etc, ASCII characters?"
ButhainaA asks, "what is sepup?"
SusanneN says, "it is a seal baby I think"
DafneG says, "yes"
ButhainaA says, "yes, I saw sus"
ButhainaA says, "hehehe"
DafneG pets Lanny
Warf Warf . o O <feed me, DafneG!>
SusanneN says, "we only have three animals"
SusanneN says, "the thirs surprise is a..."
ß </. .\>~~~~~~\@
ß ((oo) ) ( )
'-' ||----\/
o ~~ ~
______
| |
SusanneN holds up a BIG pig: | PIG! |
|______|
_
</. .\>~~~~~~\@
((oo) ) ( )
'-' ||----\/
o ~~ ~
o _______
| |
ButhainaA holds up a BIG pig: | Haulk |
DafneG feeds meat to Lanny.
Lanny chews tentatively at meat.
_
</. .\>~~~~~~\@
((oo) ) ( )
'-' ||----\/
o ~~ ~
o ______
| |
ButhainaA holds up a BIG pig: | honk |
SusanneN says, "Buth, do you see how this can be used to get the attention of your students in an educational chat running off track"
ButhainaA says, "wow, yes, Sus you are right.."
ButhainaA asks, "like, the white board at the Groupboard too , right?"
SusanneN says, "and, at the same time, all these little tricks make you very aware that computer interaction is programmed by people"
SusanneN says, "I fell in love with all the MOO commands, like learning a whole new language and grammar"
DafneG cleans the whiteboard with a soapy sponge...
SusanneN says, "to me, programming is like different foreign languages (which it is, basically)"
ButhainaA says, "oh, got you guys,"
DafneG writes on the whiteboard...
The printer begins to hum as DafneG prints out the data from the Dafne's Cozy Nook...
ButhainaA says, "Fantastic, thank you both"
SusanneN says, "I'd better take a look at the whiteboard to see what Daf is up to"
ButhainaA says, "my goodness, you really opened my EYES so Widely"
SusanneN writes on the whiteboard...
SusanneN says, "Buth, the MOO was invented long before we had graphical interfaces"
SusanneN says, "so they really needed to create some kind of visual imagination with text and characters"
ButhainaA says, "yes, sus"
SusanneN says, "like, all these sweet little descriptions on objects"
ButhainaA says, "I see"
SusanneN says, "Some poeple still prefer to use what is called a Text
Client for Mooo (or MUDD)"
DafneG says, "adri is havingproblems"
SusanneN says, "it is faster if you have a slower connection, and more reliable"
ButhainaA says, "but you know you and Daf have opened my eyes on how to use TI with my students, especially those who suffer from a kind of techno-phobia"
SusanneN says, "yes"
ButhainaA says, "great"
DafneG says, "the window closes when she signs in as a guest"
SusanneN says, "TI can be a fine cure for the technofobics"
DafneG says, "she is trying again"
SusanneN says, "Daf, tell her to reboot her computer"
SusanneN says, "that will often help"
DafneG says, "she already did, sus"
SusanneN says, "hm"
ButhainaA says, "I see"
DafneG says, "she is trying once more"
ButhainaA writes on the whiteboard...
DafneG says, "I was so amazed how I moderated my chats last week"
ButhainaA says, "okay I'm going to write a note of what you said in my reflection document and come back soon, okay."
SusanneN exclaims, "Yes, they were very finely moderated!
SusanneN says, "ok dear"
DafneG says, "when I was reading them I could not believe, I had been able to go over all those topics"
DafneG says, "ok, Buth"
SusanneN exclaims, "You were so inspired!"
DafneG says, "lol"
SusanneN says, "I could almost feel and touch your energies"
DafneG says, "I am like that in class"
DafneG says, "I felt I was in a room with people"
DafneG says, "i could almost see the faces"
SusanneN says, "but really! I felt like I was reading your mind here and there because I have seen your progress and been involved in your reflections and evaluation process."
SusanneN says, "I wish I were one of your RL students, daf - in a way, I do feel like that"
DafneG says, "yes, it was a very nice experience"
DafneG asks, "would you summarize this chat for the list Sus?"
SusanneN says, "I think that a very good teacher can make a progression in her presentation like this one, that scaffolds the learner. And, as I was an advanced learner in this situation, I felt like I was already climbing your scaffold"
SusanneN says, "I will! I can do this tomorrow, i believe"
DafneG exclaims, "great!"
DafneG says, "to both statements of yours"
SusanneN asks, "did you read what I just arrived at explaining to you?"
SusanneN says, "I'm a little amazed myself :-)"
DafneG says, "yes, and it was like what I wanted to say, was asked by the audience"
DafneG says, "and you had the answers"
DafneG says, "or you complemented my answers"
SusanneN exclaims, "so, your presentation was excellent!"
ButhainaA says, "i'm back"
DafneG says, "it was really great"
DafneG says, "I liked the second one"
SusanneN says, "Maybe you might have had someone like me in your mind when you prepared your material"
DafneG says, "maybe ;-)"
SusanneN says, "so, if you had, then it was only natural that I was able to respond to it"
DafneG says, "you know we share and reflect together about so many things"
SusanneN asks, "You know what?"
DafneG says, "that we know how each feel and think about all this"
SusanneN says, "I found a wonderful resource of photographs from Copenhagen architecture"
DafneG asks, "really?"
DafneG asks, "online?"
SusanneN says, "it really made me feel we should use this for creating another course in Architechture English :-))"
SusanneN says, "yes"
SusanneN says, "let me search for it"
DafneG says, "sure, Caro has asked me if I am preparing another unit"
SusanneN says, "there were some really wsonderful detail pictures"
SusanneN says, "and I could help report from real life here :-)"
ButhainaA asks, "Daf, what do you think about a unified ESP English course for Science, engineering, and education students? do you think it works?"
SusanneN asks, "sounds a bit complicated, Buth?"
DafneG says, "it may work"
ButhainaA asks, "I'm asking you this, as they intend to do it for next semester here?"
DafneG says, "the emphasis for each could be different though"
DafneG says, "use general science topics"
DafneG says, "and ask education students to see how they can use those texts to create lessons"
ButhainaA says, "I see,"
DafneG says, "so, the education students can create lessons for the science-engineering students"
ButhainaA says, "but you know,"
DafneG says, "they won't do that for sure"
ButhainaA says, "4 of my students who majored in Eng. and took with me the remedial English course last semester"
DafneG says, "yes"
ButhainaA says, "came to see me yesterday, they said they didn't understand anything, as in engineering they started now to prepeare teachers to use the material used in Science school"
ButhainaA says, "they told me the teacher said she's been using different practice for engineering such as describing buildings , you know Daf"
DafneG says, "yes"
DafneG says, "well, I have taught EST for many years"
ButhainaA says, "and although Engineering use the same text book we use currently for years now, but they never used the text book and sticked only to the practice supplement"
ButhainaA says, "teachers created at the Engi. unit"
DafneG says, "but we teach them through reading strategies with authentic material"
ButhainaA asks, "EST?"
DafneG says, "English for Science and Technology"
DafneG says, "that is where Engineering would be located"
DafneG says, "it is a branch of ESP"
ButhainaA says, "oh, this is the name of the new text book we will use
for the unified course too."
DafneG says, "but we use real science magazines"
DafneG says, "and change the readings every trimester so they are
ß updated"
ButhainaA says, "okay, so maybe you can tell me about Daf."
DafneG says, "sure"
DafneG says, "tomorrow I will send you the reference for Cooperative Learning Approach"
ButhainaA says, "yes, Daf, this what I use with my students too, authentic materials from magazine and newspapers"
DafneG says, "tha I talked about last night"
ButhainaA says, "opps, looks like one of my students is at YM, wait plz." (Buth disappears and returns)
DafneG says, "wait, let me look for the book"
DafneG says, "Kagan, S. (1994). Cooperative Learning.San Juan Capistrano,CA: Kagan Cooperative Learning."
SusanneN says, "I'm still reading along J
DafneG says, "I wrote the reference to Cooperative learning and you disconnected in that moment,"
ButhainaA says, "I thought it was one of my students at YM. but it was someone who just wanted to chat."
SusanneN says, "your concern about teaching are so interesting and Daf knows a lot about all this."
ButhainaA says, "oh, I see Daf."
ButhainaA exclaims, "because i thought you said you will e-mail it to me!"
ButhainaA says, "Yes, sus, because , I have no experience, but I can see that there are many things that are run wrongly here.."
DafneG says, "Kagan, S. (1994). Cooperative Learning.San Juan Capistrano,CA:"
DafneG says, "Kagan Cooperative Learning.""
DafneG says, "there it is, Buth"
SusanneN says, "as you told us yesterday, Buth"
ButhainaA says, "and, Daf, sure can help a lot and confirm things for me."
ButhainaA asks, "it's a book Daf?"
DafneG says, "yes, Buth"
DafneG says, "a thick book"
ButhainaA says, "a thick book! okay.."
DafneG says, "but great"
DafneG says, "it explains everything, and gives ideas"
SusanneN says, "I found an ERIC digest here:"
ButhainaA says, "but, you Daf, I find the links you added to week 6 are very useful."
DafneG says, "very practical"
SusanneN says, "ERIC"
SusanneN asks, "Can I project?"
DafneG says, "thanks"
SusanneN projects the URL:
http://www.ericfacility.net/ericdigests/ed370881.html
DafneG says, "great, Sus, I have that one"
SusanneN says, "I also found another one in the same genre
ButhainaA says, "okay, eric digest,got it.."
SusanneN asks, "maybe Buth will have a look?"
ButhainaA says, "thanks Daf"
ButhainaA says, "that's not a thick one Daf,"
ButhainaA says, "I'm printing it out sus"
DafneG says, "no, but this article is only text, the other one has activities and handouts - and tells you how to evaluate"
ButhainaA says, "Wow, Great, thanks Daf"
DafneG says, "this is just an extract of what CL is"
SusanneN projects the URL:
http://www.ncela.gwu.edu/ncbepubs/pigs/pig12.htm
DafneG says, "thanks Sus"
DafneG asks, "you know what Buth?"
DafneG says, "Kagan is always at TESOL conventions"
DafneG says, "you can see all the material he has"
DafneG says, "I bought that book there at TESOL"
SusanneN says, "This paper users Kagan and has some good ideas for coop learning"
DafneG says, "in the Books Exhibit"
SusanneN says, "Oh yes, and Buth plan to go to TESOL, right"
DafneG says, "yes, Holts writes about CL"
DafneG says, "yes"
ButhainaA says, "Thanks sus, for the URL, Daf this is wonderful..but"
ButhainaA says, "here they prepare students for test only..."
ButhainaA says, " and when I used authentic materials, i found that it had nothing to do with the midterm or final exam"
DafneG projects the URL:
http://www.staffdevelopmentpros.com/spencer_kagan_cooperative_learning.htm
DafneG asks, "did you get the Kagan page?"
ButhainaA says, "no Daf,"
DafneG says, "let me show it to you, Buth"
DafneG shows ButhainaA the URL:
http://www.staffdevelopmentpros.com/spencer_kagan_cooperative_learning.htm
ButhainaA says, "oh, the first one Robert J and the other one"
DafneG says, "Spencer Kagan"
SusanneN says, "yes, I was skimmimg More Kagan"
ButhainaA says, "yes, Daf got it"
ButhainaA exclaims, "found it at the bottom minimized!"
SusanneN asks, "Are the Kagans brothers?"
DafneG says, "sorry, it is not the one i wanted to show"
DafneG says, "the other one does not open"
DafneG says, "I only know one Kagan Sus"
SusanneN says, "Did you see the page called kaganonline? This design is way too Barbielike :-)"
ButhainaA says, "interesting stuff, Daf, exactly, what I want thanks..and the mutli-intellegence issue is here too."
DafneG says, "you will find wonderful material on MI at TESOL too"
ButhainaA asks, "Barbielike!! you mean the Barbi Sus?"
DafneG says, "I have many useful things about MI there, Buth"
DafneG holds up a BIG sign: Concluding remarks about Quality in e-learning?
SusanneN says, "I'll project to show you why I was not so fond of Spencer Kagan the first time I looked him up"
ButhainaA says, "these are the things I tell my students, i mean the MI, and they like it..gives more confidenc"
SusanneN says, "ok, over and out, then"
SusanneN says, "it is at: http://www.kaganonline.com/
ButhainaA says, "one of my students left science school already and has enrolled in Art school of painting"
ButhainaA says, "Yes, Sus, you are right it is Barbilike"
DafneG says, "thanks Sus that is the one I wanted to show"
SusanneN says, "and, you se - the Kagans is a couple"
DafneG [to ButhainaA]: "some of my architecture students start studying Engineering"
DafneG says, "yes, a couple ys"
ButhainaA says, "Sus, Thank you, you saved my life, this is amazing.."
ButhainaA says, "I'm really overwhelmed don't know where to start reading.."
ButhainaA asks, "And this is the same Kagan you showed Daf?"
DafneG says, "yes"
ButhainaA asks, "Sus, is he the same one in California?"
DafneG says, "yes, Buth, that is the page i wanted to show you, but it did not show on my browser"
DafneG says, "he has his own publishing house - and lots of material for cooperative group work"
SusanneN says, "Buth, I never read Kagan myself. but I know that he is often referred to."
DafneG says, "I started using CL in 1981"
SusanneN says, "you can find a few free papers on this site, and some you will have to pay for"
ButhainaA asks, "CL?"
DafneG says, "cooperative learning"
SusanneN asks, "you mean, coop learning?"
SusanneN says, "yes"
ButhainaA says, "yes, Sus, I noticed..oh, got you Daf"
DafneG says, "kids, I am sleepy, need to get some rest and wake up very early tomorrow"
ButhainaA says, "Daf, is the term Collaborative used as Cooperative."
SusanneN says, "it is still a discussion whether you prefer to distinguish between co-op and collaborative."
DafneG says, "no, it is different, Buth"
SusanneN says, "hey, you see, I already knew your question"
ButhainaA says, "No, sus, but I'm more familiar with the term cooperative"
SusanneN says, "yes"
DafneG says, "but in this case, it is used referring to collaboration"
ButhainaA says, "I thought so, Daf, because at SUNY, I was intruduced to the concept of CL not Collaborative."
ButhainaA asks, "and what is the difference DAf please?"
DafneG says, "I will leave you talking but I need to get some rest I have had a very stressful day, and tomorrow won't be easier"
ButhainaA says, "okay, Daf, thanks. and goodnight"
ButhainaA says, "maybe we can continue tomorrow, what do you think girls/"
DafneG says, "yes, we can continue tomorrow"
SusanneN says, "It is late and we all need some sleep"
ButhainaA says, "please, take care of yourself,"
SusanneN says, "I promised to make a resume of this chat, and I will"
DafneG says, "thank you"
DafneG says, "thanks Sus"