Chat with Dafne on Tuesday, February 18, 2003.  Week 5

“From WIA learner to E-moderator.  ESP unit – Use of chats”

at Tapped In, in Dafne’s office

DafneG says, "hi"

                                Note[DG1] 

DafneG says, "hi Arif"

rif [guest] says, "hi"

rif [guest] asks, "r u here?"

DafneG says, "I thought you got lost"

DafneG says, "I was getting something sweet from the kitchen"

DafneG says, "I am getting nervous"

rif [guest] asks, "what for, may I ask?"

DafneG says, "stage fright"

DafneG says, "I am so clumsy multitasking"

rif [guest] exclaims, "I should open a glass of wine!"

DafneG says, "that would be good, it is cold in here"

rif [guest] asks, "do you like hot wine?"

DafneG says, "just love it"

SusanneN has arrived.

DafneG says, "with spices"

DafneG hugs Sus

SusanneN [In Action!!] says, "Oh, here we are, together"

DafneG says, "yes, dear"

SusanneN [In Action!!] hugs daf 

DafneG says, "trying to calm down with some hot wine offered by Arif"

SusanneN [In Action!!] says, "Hi; Rif, nice to see you back"

DafneG says, "Sus, so you liked my invitation"

SusanneN [In Action!!] says, "Daf, I was so pleased by your

                              invitation!!! and the calendar reminder 

was  great, too"

SusanneN [In Action!!] says, "I never had one like this before, and it

                              is so simple"

DafneG says, "that's a YG feature we do not use much in WIA"

SusanneN [In Action!!] says, "I've often wondered how to use it properly

now I know"

DafneG says, "I was trying to do something different"

SusanneN [In Action!!] says, "Well you often are making a difference"

rif [guest] says, "There is a delay in receiving messages on my end. Hi

                   sus"

SusanneN [In Action!!] says, "lol"

TeresaAlm [concentrated on week 4] arrives from nowhere.

SusanneN [In Action!!] hugs Tere!

DafneG hugs Tere

DafneG says, "we are waiting for Buth and Maria, Tere"

SusanneN looks listen to us!.

DafneG says, "let's wait a couple of minutes"

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] asks, "daf, still snowing in valencia?"

SusanneN [listen to us!] asks, "Oh, so they accepted your invitation,

                                too?"

ArlynF has connected.

DafneG says, "hi Arlyn"

DafneG exclaims, "welcome!!"

ArlynF [awake now] exclaims, "Hi Dafne!"

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] says, "hi, arlyn."

SusanneN says, "Hello Arlyn dear"

ArlynF [awake now] exclaims, "I came to watch you moderator, and to

                              learn!  Hi Suzanne!"

ArlynF [awake now] exclaims, "Hi teresa!"

DafneG says, "well, do not expect much ;-)"

SusanneN says, "welcome to Tapped In"

ArlynF [awake now] says, "I'm sure you'll be great.  I have no idea how

                          to operate this yet."

DafneG asks, "should we go to my office?"

ArlynF [awake now] says, "sure"            

ArlynF [awake now] asks, "how do we go?"         Note[DG2] 

DafneG says, "I will leave first, then you /join DafneG"

DafneG asks, "ok?"

SusanneN says, "If Daf leaves first, I can guide you :-)"

ArlynF [awake now] says, "okay"

DafneG says, "welcome to my Nook"

ArlynF [awake now] says, "Nice digs"

ArlynF [awake now] smiles

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] exclaims, "what a quick ride up the 

elevator!"

DafneG says, "lol"

SusanneN says, "I set the login-watch so I can see if any WIA-head need

                help in reception"

DafneG says, "you can read my whiteboard"     Note[DG3] 

DafneG says, "great Sus"

ArlynF [awake now] asks, "Hmm, I don't have an office for tomorrows

                          chat... should I get one, or is there one I 

can

                          borrow?"

DafneG says, "you can use this, dear"

ArlynF [awake now] exclaims, "Oh , Thank you!"

SusanneN writes on the whiteboard...

DafneG says, "I have put the plants away and the books to the corner"

ArlynF [awake now] says, "Judging by today's topic, it's perfect for 

me"

DafneG [to Sus,]: "thanks for your message on the board"

SusanneN looks open ears.

DafneG says, "well, I have a question of logistics and cognitive style

              before I start"               Note[DG4] 

ArlynF [awake now] exclaims, "We've had 2 feet of snow, which means no

                              one is going anywhere here.  which means 

I

                              was available today!"

DafneG says, "great, Arlyn  I am glad you could make it"

ArlynF [awake now] exclaims, "me too!"

SusanneN [open ears] asks, "now shall we begin soon, or do you expect

                            others to tune in yet?"

DafneG says, "two more, but we can start"

TeresaAlm writes on the whiteboard...        Note[DG5] 

SusanneN [impatient] says, "we can wait if you like :-)"

DafneG says, "my question about logistics and cognitive style is"

SusanneN [impatient] update to read the whiteboard

DafneG says, "would you prefer to start with the theory behind or with

              the actual course"

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] says, "i wrote no. 7 and forgot to sign. :-("

ArlynF [awake now] says, "Well, I'm a logistics person, but don't go by

                          me."

DafneG says, "I would prefer to start with the unit"

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] says, "whichever way you prefer, daf."

SusanneN [impatient] wonders about my personal mixed cognitive style

DafneG says, "let me tell you about the online unit"

SusanneN [impatient] says, "once we've seen that unit, it will get 

Easier to understand your theoretical foundation"   Note[DG6] 

DafneG says, "yes, Sus I think so"

SusanneN [impatient] says, "Maria is here now"     Note[DG7] 

ArlynF [awake now] asks, "Sus, how did you know Maria had arrived?"

DafneG says, "ok, I planned it for my dissertation"

SusanneN [impatient] says, "sorry, I'll go and make her come up here"

ArlynF [awake now] says, "(PS: I know you're very patient)"

DafneG says, "it was especially designed for my architecture students 

in Caracas"

ArlynF [awake now] says, "okay"

DafneG says, "it was a component of their f2f class"

DafneG says, "first time done at my university"

DafneG says, "I was given permission"

DafneG says, "and the 2 f2f teachers agreed with the project"

DafneG says, "I trained them before the unit started"

DafneG says, "they had never done any online teaching or learning"

DafneG says, "neither had I"

DafneG says, "I planned everything while attending the WIA session last

              year"

DafneG says, "I opened a YG"

DafneG says, "since blackboard had gone paid"

DafneG says, "which was my first choice"

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] asks, "where's maria?"

DafneG says, "so, following Vance's model, I decided to create a web

              page for the course too"

SusanneN says, "she is in her new office and is coming right away"

DafneG says, "to complement it"

SusanneN looks listen to Daf too.

DafneG says, "I cannot show you the YG because you need membership"

DafneG says, "but I will show you the page now, if you are ready for a

              projection"

SusanneN [listen to Daf too] present her membership badge :-)

DafneG says, "lol"

SusanneN [listen to Daf too] asks, "Arlyn do you remember projections,

                                    will open e new window on your

                                    screen?"

DafneG says, "ready for projection"

rif [guest] says, "yeap"

ArlynF [awake now] says, "yes, but I forget how to 'project'" Note[DG8] 

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] exclaims, "shoot!"

DafneG asks, "if you have any question first?"

DafneG projects the URL:

http://www.geocities.com/dygonza/unitindex.html

DafneG asks, "did you get it?"

ArlynF [awake now] whispers thank you         Note[DG9] 

SusanneN [listen to Daf too] c laps for the fine page

DafneG says, "you can go around the page, and come back for questions

              and comments"

rif [guest] says, "cool page Daf"

DafneG says, "thanks, Arif"

ArlynF [awake now] exclaims, "I really like the use of the dictionary

and thesaurus.  Something Aiden suggested I add to my pages a year ago!"

DafneG says, "it was very helpful, Arlyn"

ArlynF looks listening.

DafneG says, "students love the page"

DafneG says, "and used it a lot"

ArlynF [listening] says, "It's great, very clear and helpful."

DafneG says, "I also had all the links in the YG Links section"

SusanneN [listen to Daf too] says, "I remember how you created this 

Page in Geocities in a very smooth way."

DafneG says, "you can see that there is a link to the YG from the page"

DafneG says, "yes, my first attempts to web page creation from scratch"

DafneG says, "that is only html"

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] asks, "daf, in week 0, when you say students

                                 get acquainted with online facilitator

                                 that is 'you', right?"

DafneG says, "yes"

DafneG looks facilitator

DafneG says, "they did not have all the activities from the beginning"

DafneG says, "I posted them week by week"

rif [guest] asks, "Groupboard looks like a nice component for students.

                   How did they like it? Did they find it easy to use?"

DafneG says, "yes, they liked it, it was a fun component"

DafneG says, "mainly used it while in my individual chats with them"

ArlynF [listening] says, "This is a side note but, many new members (to

Webheads) have asked for this same information. Maybe you would like to post just the YG info (how to start a YG, and sign up)"  Note[DG10] 

rif [guest] asks, "Was it free or were you subscribed for the service Daf?"

DafneG says, "everything I used was free, Rif"

SusanneN [listen to Daf too] asks, "Daf, can I ask, where do the files

                                    fomn Groupboard get stored? Do you

                                    just take a screenshot for save a

                                    good drawing?"

DafneG says, "that is why I could not use blackboard"

DafneG says, "yes, sus"                 Note[DG11] 

SusanneN [listen to Daf too] says, "ok"

SusanneN [listen to Daf too] exclaims, "Don is joining us soon

DafneG says, "I had to change my syllabus in a way"

DonC arrives from nowhere.

ArlynF [listening] says, "I'm still moping about the loss of Wimba"

DafneG says, "I had  planned to use Wimba for speaking"

DafneG says, "hello Don, Welcome"

SusanneN [listen to Daf too] exclaims, "Welcome Don!"

DonC says, "hi"

ArlynF [listening] exclaims, "hi don!"

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] says, "hi, don."

DafneG says, "but Wimba became paid too"

DafneG says, "Don, we are talking about my online unit"

SusanneN [listen to Daf too] says, "Don, we're looking at this page, I

                                    will show it to you"

ArlynF [listening] says, "That was a real loss"

DonC says, "thanks"

SusanneN [listen to Daf too] says, "it will come up in a new window"

DafneG says, "thanks, Sus"

DafneG says, "yes, Arlyn"

SusanneN [listen to Daf too] shows DonC the URL:

  http://www.geocities.com/dygonza/unitindex.html

rif [guest] says, "I agree with you Arlyn. It was a very cool 

component"

DafneG says, "but I coud not afford it"

DafneG says, "the university would not pay for it"    Note[DG12] 

ArlynF [listening] says, "No one can, I think it's $1,000 USD per 

school"

DafneG says, "I had other problems too"

DafneG says, "thanks,Sus it is appreciated"

DafneG says, "the university went on strike a few weeks before the

              course started"              Note[DG13] 

DafneG says, "and the trimester was shortened"

SusanneN [listen to Daf too] says, "My university has just implemented

                                    Blackboard"      Note[DG14] 

ArlynF [listening] says, "But this is a very thorough layout,

                          well-planned.  Amazing for a first try."

rif [guest] asks, "aren't you lucky Sus?"

DafneG says, "so, I had to modify and eliminate some activities"

DafneG says, "yes, it was very time consuming"

SusanneN [listen to Daf too] says, "But they are being very careful to

                                    make password protected course

                                    material"

SusanneN [listen to Daf too] says, "well, as I have taken all my

                                    classes, I have no real use for BB

                                    right now"

DafneG says, "but, I wanted to make sure that everything fit"

ArlynF [listening] asks, "If I can interject a word about Blackboard

                          materials...?"

SusanneN . o O ( Back to Daf's course )     Note[DG15] 

DafneG says, "it was not difficult for me, because that is the way I

              work in my f2f"

DafneG says, "yes, Arlyn"

DonC asks, "Has anyone were experimented with Moodle?"   Note[DG16] 

DafneG says, "not me"

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] asks, "daf, the planning is very similar, 

it's

                                 the implementation that's totally

                                 different, right?"

ArlynF [listening] says, "At my last university, they would 'recycle' a

course.  So all of my materials were available to the next teacher of the course."

DonC says, "It look very promising."

DafneG says, "yes, Tere, you are right"

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] says, "because the tools are different."

ArlynF [listening] says, "The same thing happened at the U of Penn,

                          which is how Nigel discovered he and I had

                          taught the same course."

SusanneN [listen to Daf too] says, "I've taken a frist look at Moodle

                                    but not explored further"

rif [guest] says, "It is getting late in here, and I have a 8:00 am

                   class to catch. So, I wish you all nice talk"

DafneG says, "that's awful, Arlyn"

ArlynF [listening] says, "by rif"

SusanneN [listen to Daf too] says, "Oh, nice to have you here, Rif"

rif [guest] says, "Unfortunately I need to leave"

ArlynF [listening] says, "I mean bye"

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] says, "bye, rif."

DafneG says, "thanks for coming Arif"

ArlynF [listening] says, "I'm sorry you're leaving"

DonC says, "sorry to have missed your Rif"

rif [guest] says, "more later.. waves good night to all" Note[DG17] 

DafneG says, "well, I really wanted my students to work from beginning

              to end building on the final task"

                                            Note**[DG18] 

SusanneN [to Don]: "we can get back to Moodle some time, I will 

bookmark

                    ti"

DafneG says, "and every activity was conductive to the final task"

DonC asks, "What was the final task?"           Note[DG19] 

DafneG says, "they were studying the characteristics of Modernist

              Architecture in VAlencia"

DafneG says, "and the final task was an essay on the subject"

DafneG says, "I decided on that topic"

DafneG says, "because the students did not know anything about Valencia

              architecture"

DafneG says, "so, all materials were new to them"

DonC asks, "What form was the essay to take?"

DafneG says, "they started, as you can see in the activities, by 

Looking  at elements"                   Note[DG20] 

DafneG says, "an academical essay, Don"

SusanneN [to Daf,]: "were your students novices to online material and

                     communication?"

DonC asks, "And why did you choose an essay?"

DafneG says, "and describing them from pictures"

DafneG says, "because that is part of what they have to learn to write"

DonC says, "It seems like such a traditional product."

DafneG says, "the product after the process"

DafneG says, "if you read how all the activities are planned" Note[DG21] 

DafneG says, "and how they got to the essay"

SusanneN [listen to Daf too] asks, "The essay was written as a

                                    collaborative task I think?"

DafneG says, "through collaborative work"

DonC asks, "Do you take a process approach with the writing?"

DafneG says, "yes, Don"

DonC says, "For example, working through multiple drafts."

DafneG says, "yes, with peer correction"

DafneG says, "that is what they did in the chats"

DafneG says, "let me explain the process in the chats"  Note[DG22] 

DafneG says, "students were in groups of 5"

DafneG says, "heterogeneous groups"

DafneG says, "each one selected a description of a building"

DafneG says, "and then in the chat, each one explained to the others

              aabout his building"

DafneG says, "the, they had to write a group essay about the

              characteristics shared by those buildings"

ArlynF [listening] raises her hand

DafneG says, "yes, Arllyn"

ArlynF [listening] asks, "How important is the chat element?  Could 

They have benefited the same from exchanging their essays?"

DafneG says, "no"

DafneG says, "they used the language"

DafneG says, "they negotiated meanings"

DafneG says, "I can show you some samples of chat logs"

ArlynF [listening] says, "Oh I see, they had to recall the new

                          vocabulary on the go."

SusanneN says, "I would agree with Daf, the chat was an important part

                of the essay writing"

DafneG says, "where you can see the negotiation of meaning"

DafneG says, "students considered they learned because of the chats"

ArlynF [listening] says, "I've never used chat in the classroom, this 

is why I am curious"

DonC says, "As a CAist I've come to be uncomfortable with that term

            "negotiation of meaning""

DafneG asks, "want to take a look?"

DonC asks, "I mean what does it mean?"

SusanneN says, "as you may know, I had the great opportunity to have a

                look at some of the activities in this course, and read

                some chatlogs"

DafneG says, "sorry for you,Don"         Note[DG23] 

DafneG says, "it is fundamental for language learning to take place"

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] says, "i see this as a completely innovative

                                 way of writing, no way compared to

                                 classroom writing or group writing f2f."

ArlynF [listening] says, "Are the logs posted somewhere, I'd be curious

                          to read them."

DafneG says, "let me show you some samples of the chats"

ArlynF [listening] says, "ok"

SusanneN says, "I was able to follow how they managed to put words on

                their thoughts, IN English"

DafneG projects the URL:

http://dygonza.esmartweb.com/evonline2003/chats/examples.htm

DafneG asks, "did you get it?"

ArlynF [listening] asks, "So do you feel chat supplements writing,

                          speaking or both skill areas?"

DafneG says, "I cannot publish the complete chats yet, because they are 

              part of my dissertation"

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] says, "in this case they 'have to' speak

                                 english because they know the logs 

will be read, whereas in class we all know what happens when they do group work."

DafneG says, "writing, reading"

DafneG says, "yes, Tere, that is right"

DafneG says, "they had the speaking in their f2f classes"

DafneG says, "we used voice sometimes but was not evaluated"

ArlynF [listening] says, "It's amazing how much their chat is like a 

f2f conversation."

DafneG says, "yes"

DafneG says, "they were much engaged in the task"

ArlynF [listening] says, "Not like in typical 'chat rooms'"

DafneG says, "of course not"

DafneG says, "they had their task"

SusanneN says, "Right, Arlyn, this is for serious, not just kid chat"

DafneG says, "and they were interested in the content"

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] says, "don't you feel the same happens with

                                 you, arlyn, here for example? i do."

SusanneN says, "we might need a new term for "educational and planned

                chat""              Note[DG24] 

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] says, "i think i'm speaking as if i were f2f

                                 with you all."

DafneG says, "for me, chat is just like f2f conversation without body

              language"      Note[DG25] 

SusanneN smiles broadly to Tere

AliceCh has arrived.

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] says, "sus, we know. we had a lot of f2f

                                 chats. :-)"

ArlynF [listening] says, "Yes, here I do.  But my students are a

                          different story.  As you know, we discussed 

how chat language is overtaking proper grammar in written form, for NS and NNS alike."               Note[DG26] 

SusanneN says, "Welcome, Alice"

AliceCh says, "Hi, this is alice."

DafneG says, "when I finish my disss i will publish all the chats"

DafneG says, "hello Alice"

DonC says, "hi Alice"

AliceCh exclaims, "hi!"

AliceCh says, "Sorry, I'm late."

ArlynF [listening] exclaims, "hi alice!"

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] says, "i agree, but that is sth we have to

                                 deal with in class, arlyn."

DafneG says, "I will show you one of the rubrics I used to evaluate 

chat"

DonC exclaims, "Please do!"

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] says, "hi, alice. i'm teresa in lisbon,

                                 portugal."

ArlynF [listening] agrees with Don

DonC exclaims, "This is what got me up in the Morning!"

SusanneN says, "Alice, Daf is showing us how she used chat in her 

online

                class"

DafneG projects the URL:

http://www.geocities.com/dygonza/rubric_groupchat.html

AliceCh says, "I'm from Taipei. Please just continue and ignore me. 

I'll try to c"

AliceCh says, "catch up."

DafneG says, "I will post the chatlog later tomorrow, Alice"

DafneG says, "What was really important for me was task engagement"

DafneG says, "and content discussion"

DafneG says, "the language structures were not important now"

DonC says, "I'm curious about the social engagement part."

SusanneN peruses Membership Directory...

DafneG says, "that is important"

DonC asks, "What are you looking at there?"

DafneG says, "you do not get to a place without greeting people"

DonC says, "And why would it be important to the task at hand."

DafneG says, "you need to be polite with your peers"

DafneG says, "it is important as part of the collaboration that

              affects climate"           

AliceCh says, "Do you take into account students' personality."

DafneG says, "social scaffolding, we call it"

SusanneN says, "you also need to know that you are working in the same

                direction, and feeling comfortable"

AliceCh says, "You know some just are not social by nature."

DafneG says, "architecture students are very social"

DonC says, "I guess I'm curious as to what exactly constitues "social"

            behavior."

DonC says, "Clearly greeting."

DafneG says, "to offer help"

DonC says, "But this also functions to identify who is present."

DafneG says, "you do not need to identify who is present that way don"

DafneG says, "the nick will take care of taht"

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] asks, "alice, have you had students who are

                                 more sociable online than f2f?"

DonC asks, "Nick"?"          Note[DG27] 

SusanneN says, "difficult another aspect of social engagement would be

                how to help each other with technical constraints, not

 topic related - but making communication difficult"   

            Note[DG28] 

DafneG says, "I also saw how turns were distributed evenly"

SusanneN says, "OOps"

AliceCh says, "some prefer chatting online. Some shy ones are active

               online than f2f."

DonC says, "Turn distrubution is a very tricky task."

SusanneN agree with Alice on this

DafneG says, "well, you can see it there,Don"

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] says, "alice, i've read quite often that

                                 online helps the shier students f2f."

DafneG says, "they take their turns very smoothly"

DonC says, "One needs to be analyzing whether how next speakers are

            selected."               Note[DG29] 

ArlynF [listening] says, "For example, when i had students using the

                          groupboard, they constantly fought for control

                          of the board"

DafneG says, "nobody stayed quiet"

ArlynF [listening] says, "ANd I had to referee, chosing who should

                          control it when"

                                        Note[DG30] 

AliceCh says, "that's true. but it also involves their technical 

skills."

DafneG says, "I would like to show you more details of the unit, and

              about the theory behind"

SusanneN says, "Yes, please do"

DafneG says, "but it is late and in 5 minutes I have to attend an 

Online ocnference"

AliceCh says, "please."

DonC says, "Doozo"

DafneG says, "but I can continue on Thursday"

ArlynF [listening] says, "oh, i have so many questions..."

DafneG says, "we can continue on the list too"

AliceCh says, "and I just got in (sigh!)"

DafneG says, "but on thursday i will be here"

SusanneN says, "we sure can"

AliceCh says, "I will, too."

ArlynF [listening] says, "my questions are selfish, I'm concerned about

                          tomorrow"

AliceCh asks, "what's going on tomorrow?"

DafneG says, "contact me later, Arlyn"

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] says, "arlyn, relax. everything will go 

fine."

ArlynF [listening] says, "Okay, Dafne"

SusanneN asks, "arlyn why so - are you hosting a chat tomorrow?"

ArlynF [listening] says, "Thanks Tere"

DafneG says, "I will be 1 and half hour in a conference"

ArlynF [listening] says, "yes"

MariaJo finds her way in.

MariaJo's personal recorder follows MariaJo to here.

DafneG says, "I have really enjoyed seeing you all here"

ArlynF [listening] says, "okay, I'll email you"

AliceCh says, "You'll be fine."

DafneG says, "and I am really sorry i have to go now"

MariaJo says, "Hi all"

SusanneN asks, "Daf, where , now?"

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] says, "thanks, daf. great info."

ArlynF [listening] says, "thanks Alice, hope so"

MariaJo says, "sorry for being late"

SusanneN says, "bye bye, then, thanks for inviting us"

DafneG says, "I have a conference in spanish now"

ArlynF [listening] says, "Yes, Thanks Dafne, really terrific"

AliceCh says, "Thanks, see you all next time."

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] says, "maria, the party has ended. :-("

ArlynF [listening] says, "bye Alice"

AliceCh says, "Give you a big hug, Dafne."

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] says, "bue, alice."

DafneG says, "I will be here thursday, and can continue if you want"

DonC says, "Bye Dafne"

SusanneN says, "this was a great opening of week 5"

DafneG says, "thank you all"

ArlynF [listening] exclaims, "Yes!"

TeresaAlm [listen to daf] asks, "same time, same place?"

DafneG says, "yes, dear"

MariaJo (

SusanneN says, "I'll try to be there, too"

DafneG says, "please, do"

MariaJo says, "ok, I'll try to have a look at the logs..."

DafneG runs to the other computer

                         Thank you people for coming, and hope to see you on Thursday

Daf